Do you think Tommy was cappable of love? He loved his children thats for sure but what about his wifes? I never understood his fascination with Grace, in my opinion it was more obssesion than love... I always felt bad for Lizzie cause she truly loved him even after all the harms she suffered through him. He was starved for love, for affection, he needed someone to love him but I always felt like he couldn't love them back...
Hi - thank you for that very interesting question.
The short answer is yes. I think Tommy is absolutely capable of love and all kinds of love. When talking about love, I think we should always differentiate between types of love. Like you said, he definately loves his children deerly and deeply.
With Grace, well in S1 we see very little of a real relationship as she is still a spy. I do think he fell for her, but which version of her did he really fall in love with (also loving someone and being in love with someone are two very different things in my opinion). S2 is an affair and in S3 we see very little of their actual relationship until she dies. I think he very clearly mourns her in S3 and in S4. But the thing about mourning is, it is hardly ever objective. One of my grandmother’s favourite sayings is “You’re never more popular than at your own funeral” and I think that is true. With Tommy there is also guilt. He didn’t just lose a loved one (like with Greta) but he is directly responsible for her death, she died not just for him but instead of him. I don’t think it is obsession so much as it is guilt. And in S5 when Grace shows up again in form of hallucinations, we see that. She isn’t a comforting entity that calms him, she is the personification of his death wish and destructive thoughts goading him to suicide. That’s not a sign of love, even love lost, but of guilt.
People are misinterpreting Max’s line so much!
She isn’t saying “Billy didn’t deserve to live” but that she isn’t sure if he deserved to be saved! It’s a bit different. And it’s common for abuse victims to believe they deserved their abuse. I think both Billy and Max thought that at times, so Max’s thoughts reflect that idea.
This false notion that there is something bad inside of her, inside of Billy, that makes them unworthy of being saved. That made them deserve their abuse. Deserve all the pain they suffered.
If Billy can be a complicated and messed up human being in reaction to his abuse then you can forgive Max for, y'know, having complicated feelings about her abuser. Especially since, I’m not sure if y'all were paying attention, but Max also says that she started to wish for her own death 🙃
She doesn’t believe that she deserves to be saved! She is actually being honest to Vecna, because she can’t lie to him. She’s hiding all the good and light inside of her, yes, but all the darkness that she is showing him is absolutely real.
She wanted to die, a part of her did anyway. And she wasn’t sure if she deserved to be saved because of the guilt she felt over wishing her own brother died and the guilt she felt over not saving him.
Max loving Billy and also sometimes fantasizing about his death are not mutually exclusive! Like, damn, if Billy fans can believe that Billy loved Max while also terrorizing her than perhaps you can give Max a break too and see her and her brother’s relationship as the complicated, tragic, and fucked up mess that it is.
